| Notes |
[[Category:Wales Project Pre 1500 Managed Profiles]]
}
== Biography ==
}: [[ferch_Llywelyn-5|Margaret ferch Llywelyn]], daughter of [[ap_Iorwe r t h - 2 6|Llywelyn ap Iorwerth]],[[[FitzJohn-120|Joan of England]] was L l y w e l yn's wife, but may not have been the mother of Margaret (see [[#Di s p u t e d_Mother|"Disputed Mother" above]]).] married (1) in 1219 [[B r a o s e -104|John de Brewes]], (2) before 2 Nov. 1234 [[Clifford-248|Walte r d e C l i f ford]][Douglas Richardson. ''Royal Ancestr y' ' ( 2 0 1 3), volume I, pages 530-532 BREWES 7.] (married after 123 2 Charles Cawley. [http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLand s / WA L E S.htm#MargaretM1JohnBraoseM2WalterClifford Margaret ferch Llywely n ] , e n t ry in "Medieval Lands" database. ).
: [[Braose-104|John de Briouse]], Lord of Bramber and Gower, was the so n o f W i l l iam de Briouse & his wife _____["''The Chronicle of the Pr in ce s o f W a les'' records that 'John de Bruse married Margaret the daugh t e r o f L l ywelyn son of Iorwerth' in 1219" (Cawley, [http://fmg.ac/Proje c t s / M edLands/ENGLISHNOBILITYMEDIEVAL3.htm#JohnBriouseMMargaretB John de B r i o u s e]).] (also de Brewes, Breuse, Brause, etc.,[Dou g l a s R i chardson. ''Magna Carta Ancestry'' (2011), [https://books.google . c o . u k/books?id=8JcbV309c5UC&pg=PA316#v=onepage&q&f=false volume I, pag e s 3 1 6 - 318] BREWES 3.] de Braose,[Bartrum Chart, G r u f f u dd ap Cynan 4 (no longer online). ] and Bruse[[http://www . m a r y jones.us/ctexts/brut_y_tywysogion.html Brut y Tywysogion], Jesus M S 1 1 1 ( R e d Book of Hergest), retrieved 2014-06-08, [[Bairfield-1|amb]]< /r e f > ) . John was born about 1197 (aged 22 in 1219), son of William by M a u d d e C l are.]
: Her children with John de Brewes[ ( J o h n d e Briouse Lord of Bramber and Gower][Charles Cawle y ( s e e [ [ #Sources|Source list]]).]):* [[Braose-166|William]],[ S o n s L lywelyn and John are not listed by Cawley in "Medieval Lands" da t a b a s e.]* [[Braose-152|John de Brewes]], married Margery ____
: After her first husband's death in 1232, Margaret married before 2 No v . 1 2 3 4 [ [Clifford-248|Walter de Clifford]], Knt., of Clifford, Herefor d s h i r e, Cortham (in Diddlebury), Shropshire, Caenby, Lincolnshire, etc. , a n d B r o nllys, Breconshire, etc., Sheriff of Herefordshire, Constable o f C a r d i gan and Carmarthen Castles, son and heir of Walter de Clifford, o f C l i f f ord, Herefordshire, by Agnes de Cundy,[Richardson says as his 2nd wife, but Cawley ([http://fmg . a c / P rojects/MedLands/ENGLISHNOBILITYMEDIEVAL3.htm#WalterIIIClifforddie d 1 2 6 3 W alter de Clifford]) does not show a previous wife for him. He wa s h e r s e c ond husband.]
: Margaret and [[Clifford-248|Walter]] had one daughter:[ * [ [ C l ifford-47|Maud]] (Matilda][Charles Cawley. [h t t p : / /fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ENGLISHNOBILITYMEDIEVAL3.htm#WalterIIICl i f f o r ddied1263 Walter Clifford], entry in "Medieval Lands" database. ) d e C lifford, marred (1) [[Longespee-3|William Longesp�e]], Knt., ( 2 ) [ [ G i ffard-29|John Giffard]], Knt., 1st Lord Giffard][[https://groups.google.com/forum/#!s e a r c h in/soc.genealogy.medieval/margaret$20llywelyn/soc.genealogy.mediev a l / 2 q OqgMTG9YM/sKJWdAQSaQoJ soc.genealogy.medieval post], October 1999, b y " p c r " ])
: [[Clifford-248|Walter de Clifford]], Knt.,
: "At her death, her heart was buried in the church of Aconbury, Herefo r d s h i re."
=== Estimated Birth Date ===: No estimate of Margaret's birth year is f o u n d i n N orr, Cokayne, or Richardson.
: Margaret married 1219. Her first son by John de Brewes, William, is s a i d t o h a ve been of "full age 15 July 1245,"[[https://groups.google.com/forum/ # ! s e a rchin/soc.genealogy.medieval/margaret$20llywelyn/soc.genealogy.med i e v a l /2qOqgMTG9YM/sKJWdAQSaQoJ soc.genealogy.medieval post], October 19 9 9 , b y " p cr"]
One method of estimation would be to assume, given the facts above, tha t s o n W i l liam was conceived in 1223 and that the marriage, though arran ge d e a r l ier, was first consummated in 1223, when Margaret achieved the a g e o f 1 5 . T his would place Margaret's birth at 1208. Since she is not r e c og n i zed by Cawley as a daughter of llywelyn's wife Joan, Margaret's m o t h e r w ould have been one of llywelyn's mistresses. This is consistent w i t h o t h er estimates of her birth year. [[Day-1904|Day-1904]] 18:46, 26 F e b r u a ry 2016 (EST)
: John de Braose was killed at Bramber 16 July 1232, having been bruise d i n a f a l l f rom his horse [Curia Regis Rolls, 490-1; CCR 1231-4, Hen. I I I, 2 : 8 6 ; Brut (1860), p. 320-1; Brut (1952), p. 102; Brut (1955), p. 2 3 1] . < r ef name=pcr />
: The lands, wardship and marriage of William de Braose, son and heir o f J o h n , w as in the hands of various nobles until he came of age in 1241 , i n d i c ating a birth year of about 1220:
:* b 1205 if 15 at birth of first child by [[Braose-104|John Braose]] w a s b o r n i n 1220[Douglas Richardson's [http://archiver.rootsweb.ance s t r y . com/th/read/GEN-MEDIEVAL/1999-10/0939160501 Gen-Medieval Rootsweb p o s t ] , O ct. 5, 2009]
:If Margred/Margaret were older, would it not be more logical to conclu d e s h e w a s a daughter of a concubine, such as Tangwystl ferch Llywarch G o c h ( m o ther of Llywelyn's eldest son Gruffudd), rather than a child of t h i s d a u ghter of the King of Man?"
: Richardson, 2009, Gen-Medieval Archives: "I think it is a fair assump t i o n t h at Llywellyn's daughter, Margaret, was born right about 1205, as s h e h a d h e r first known Braose child in 1220. That's providing Margaret w a s 1 4 w h e n her marriage was consumated and 15 when she gave birth to he r f i r s t k nown child. If correct, then Margaret would have been born rig ht i n t h e t i me period Llywellyn was married to the Isles girl."[[ht tp: // a r c hiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/GEN-MEDIEVAL/1999-10/093916 05 0 1 G e n -Medieval Rootsweb post], Oct. 5, 2009, by Douglas Richardson]
: [[ap_Iorwerth-26|Llywelyn ap Iorwerth]], Prince of North Wales, Princ e o f A b e r ffraw, Lord of Snowden, and father of Margaret ferch Llewellyn , w a s b o r n in 1173.[analysis/conclusion added by [[Dellinger-332|April D au e n h a uer]], August 2, 2015]
: ''Note'' - in the 11th century, Welsh women consummated their marriag e a s e a r l y as 14.[See "[http://www.ancientwalesstudies.org/id45.htm l M i n i m um Age for Welsh Kingship in the Eleventh Century]," by Darrell W o l c o t t, posted by [http://www.ancientwalesstudies.org/index.html The Ce n t e r f o r the Study of Ancient Wales]]
=== Disputed Mother ===
: Margred's parents were Llywelyn the Great and... * unknown[Dictio n a r y o f N ational Biography, Llywelyn ([https://archive.org/stream/dicti o n a r y natio57stepgoog#page/n25/mode/1up p 13])]
* unknown mistress[ * [[FitzJohn-120|Joan of England]]][Margred, Rootsweb entry f r o m t h e d atabase for [https://web.archive.org/web/20230312134836/http:/ / c e l t icroyalgenealogy.co.uk/ Celtic Royal Genealogy], the Turner-Thomas s i t e " w h ich is a definitive, well researched site" (according to Prof. M y r o n W y n Evans, in his book [https://books.google.com/books?id=T0yBxEFT E R 8 C & pg=PT27&lpg=PT27&dq=red+constable+awbrey&source=bl&ots=c8chdaagU9& s i g = V dosnimBLscQ7SSdlZn6uwlylIA&hl=en&sa=X&ei=JctjVZz5MuTjsATgnYFY&ved= 0 C B 0 Q 6AEwADgU#v=onepage&q=red%20constable%20awbrey&f=false ''O Hudd Ei D d o e ' ' ] (2012). Link removed 20 June 2023 since Ancestry has deleted the R o o t s w eb database.][[http://sharonkaypenman . c o m / blog/?p=74 Penman blog post]: "Although opinion is divided over t h e m o t h ers of Gwladus, Gwenllian, Margred and Susanna, the majority of t h e g e n e alogists I have studied lean towards their mother being Joanna." ( a c c e s sed Feb. 13, 2016) ]* daughter of King of Man,[Richardson i n 1 9 9 9 G e n-Medieval forums [http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/re ad / G E N -MEDIEVAL/1999-10/0939251452 for example]][Richardson re f e r s t o h er in his 2009 Gen-Medieval posts as the Isles girl, woman, mo t h e r . ][Ynys M�n (see Wikipedia: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki / A n g l esey Anglesey])] Rognvaldr Gudrodarson, widow of Rhodri ab Ow a i n , L l ywelyn's uncle[Wikipedia: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C 7 % A B g nvaldr_Gu%C3%B0r%C3%B8%C3%B0arson Rognvaldr Gudrodarson] & [https: / / e n . wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rulers_of_the_Kingdom_of_the_Isles Rule r s o f t h e K ingdom of the Isles] (accessed Feb. 14, 2016); see also "The K i n g s o f t he Isle of Man," compiled by Stewart Baldwin, [http://www.root s w e b . ancestry.com/~medieval/man.htm note 3]]
: Richardson, 2009, Gen-Medieval Archives: "The subject of the materni t y o f L l y welyn's daughter, Margaret, could doubtless occupy many posts h e r e o n t h e board. As best I understand the evidence, Margaret was a bit o l d e r t h an Llywelyn's two daughters by Joan, Gladys and Ellen. If we acc e p t t h e p ossibility that Margaret might be Joan's daughter, it makes th i n g s E X TREMELY crowded in the nursery at the beginning of Llywelyn's ma r r i a g e to Joan. Besides Gladys and Ellen, Llywelyn and Joan also had th e i r s o n a nd heir, David, at the first part of their marriage. I frankly c a n ' t p o ssibly see how Margaret would fit chronologically to be Joan's d a u g h t er. Margaret either has to be the child of one of Llywelyn's earli e r t w o m a rriages or else illegitimate. My opinion (not conclusion) is t h a t M a r garet fits best as a child of her father's marriage to the Isles w o m a n . T hat's my opinion. Not a conclusion. I'm certainly open to furthe r d i s c u ssion and hopefully new evidence. ...: "Likewise, having an Isle s m o t h e r would have afforded her the kinds of connections which would h av e m a d e h er a desirable match for the Braose family."[[http://arch i ve r . r ootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/GEN-MEDIEVAL/1999-10/0939251452 Gen- M e d i e val Rootsweb post], Oct. 6, 2009, by Douglas Richardson]
== Sources ==
* The Bartrum Project (digitization of "Welsh Genealogies A D 3 0 0 - 1 5 00" by Peter C. Bartrum) ''no longer available online''* Cawle y, C h a r l es. "[http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/CONTENTS.htm Medieval Lan ds] " : A p r o sopography of medieval European noble and royal families c b y C h ar l e s Cawley, hosted by ''Foundation for Medieval Genealogy (FMG).' ' S e e a l s o WikiTree's source page for [[Space:Medieval_Lands|MedLands]] . * * [ h t t p://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/WALES.htm#MargaretM1JohnBraoseM2W al te r C l ifford Margaret ferch Llywelyn]** [http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLan d s / E N GLISHNOBILITYMEDIEVAL3.htm#JohnBriouseMMargaretB John Briouse]** [ h t t p : //fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ENGLISHNOBILITYMEDIEVAL3.htm#WalterIIIC l i f f o rddied1263 Walter Clifford]* Lewis, Marlyn. Entry for "[http://our - r o y a l-titled-noble-and-commoner-ancestors.com/p224.htm#i6724 Margaret o f W a l e s ]" in "Our Royal, Titled, Noble, and Commoner Ancestors and Cous in s " ( d a tabase online, accessed September 30, 2015), citing The Comple t e P e e r age, by Cokayne, Vol. V, p. 642; Some Early English Pedigrees, b y V e r n o n M. Norr, p. 68 and Richardson (''Magna Carta Ancestry'' and '' Ro y a l A n cestry'').* Plantagenesta, entry for "[http://plantagenesta.liv e j o u r nal.com/53309.html The mother and daughters of Joan of Wales]" (ac c e s s e d Feb. 13, 2016).* Richardson, Douglas. ''Magna Carta Ancestry: A S t u d y i n C olonial and Medieval Families,'' 4 vols, ed. Kimball G. Everin g h a m . 2 nd edition. Salt Lake City: the author, 2011. See also WikiTree' s s o u r c e page for ''[[Space:Magna Carta Ancestry|Magna Carta Ancestry]] .' ' * R i c h ardson, Douglas. ''Royal Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Me d ieva l F a m ilies,'' 5 vols, ed. Kimball G. Everingham. Salt Lake City: t h e a u t h or, 2013. See also WikiTree's source page for ''[[Space:Royal An c e s t r y|Royal Ancestry]].''
: Other references:* UK and Ireland, Find A Grave Index, 1300s-Current a b o u t M a rgred Verch Llewelyn. Source Information: Ancestry.com. UK and I r e l a n d, Find A Grave Index, 1300s-Current [database on-line]. Provo, UT , U S A : A n cestry.com Operations, Inc., 2012. (Accessed 25 December 2014) . O r i g i nal data: }. Data not sourced, inaccurate. '''Do not use this f or a s o u r c e for Margaret of Wales.'''* Web: Netherlands, GenealogieOnli ne Tr e e s I n dex, 1000-Current about Margaret Verch Llewellyn. Source In form a t i o n: Ancestry.com. Web: Netherlands, GenealogieOnline Trees Inde x, 1 0 0 0 - Current [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operat ion s , I n c ., 2014. Original data: [http://www.genealogieonline.nl/en/st am b o o m -dullemen/I149046.php GenealogieOnline. Coret Genealogie], (Acces s e d 2 5 D e cember 2014.). Broken links, data not sourced, inaccurate. ''' D o n o t u s e this for a source for Margaret of Wales.'''
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1202 - 1267 (65 years)
