| Notes |
[[Category:House of Vermandois]][[Category:Carolingian Dynasty]]
[[Category:Charlemagne to William the Conqueror Descent]]
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==Biography==
===Name and Titles===
*Heribert II [ Stewart Baldwin. Heribert II, The Hen r y P r o j ect. First uploaded 23 May 2007, revised 2008, 2011. http://sb a l d w . home.mindspring.com/hproject/prov/herib002.htm. Accessed May 24, 2 0 1 7 . [ [ Day-1904|jhd]] ]*Count of Vermandois 907-943 [ W i k ipedia. Herbert II Count of Vermandois. [[Wikipedia: Herbert I I , C o u n t of Vermandois]] ]
*Count of Meaux 907-943
*Count of Soissons 907-930
===880 Birth and Parentage===
While Baldwin indicates that both his date and place of birth are unkno w n , < r e f name="henry"/> both Cawley and Richardson estimate his year o f b i r t h a s 880. [ Cawley, Foundati on f o r M e d ieval Genealogy, Medieval Lands Database. [http://fmg.ac/Pr oje c t s / MedLands/NORTHERN%20FRANCE.htm#HeribertIIdied943 Northern France R e f 9 4 3 ] < /ref>]
Baldwin gives his '''probable''' father as Heribert I, who died betwee n 9 0 0 a n d 9 06, count of Vermandois, noting that "although not directly d o c u m e nted, this parentage is very probable. [ Cawley, Foun d a ti on f o r Medieval Genealogy, Medieval Lands Database, [http://fmg.ac / P r o j ects/MedLands/NORTHERN%20FRANCE.htm#_ftnref2185 Northern France Re f 2 1 8 5 ] ] Bradbury notes that "he was apparently well aware of his d e s c e n t from Charlemagne." [ Jim Bradbury, The Cape t i a n s : Kings of France, 987-1328 (London: Hambledon Continuum, 2007), p . 3 6 . C i t ed by Wikipeedia. ]
Richardson and others are comfortable in simply referring to Heribert I I a s s o n o f H eribert I, Count of Vermandois. [Detlev Schwennicke, Europ�ische Stammtafeln: Stammtafel n z u r G e s chichte der Europ�ischen Staaten, Neue Folge, Band III Teilban d 1 ( M a r b urg, Germany: J. A. Stargardt, 1984), Tafel 49. Cited by Wiki pedi a < / r e f>]
Baldwin states that his mother is unknown,
===900 Inheritance of father Heribert's domains===
Upon the death of Heribert's father, which occurred between 900 and 906 , H e r b e rt inherited the domain of his father.
===907 Lay Abbot, Saint Medard de Soissons===
In 907 Heribert added to his domains the Abbey of St. Medard in Soisson s . < r e f n ame="wiki"/> Heribert took the position of Lay abbot entitlin g h i m t o t h e income of those estates. [ Christian Se tt ipan i , L a p r�histoire des Cap�tiens 481-987 (Premi�re partie - M�rovi n gie n s , C arolingiens et Robertiens) (Villeneuve d'Ascq, 1993). 224, n. 2 3 1 , c i t ed by Stewart Baldwin. Heribert II, The Henry Project. First u p l o a d ed 23 May 2007, revised 2008, 2011. http://sbaldw.home.mindspring . c o m / hproject/prov/herib002.htm. Accessed May 24, 2017. [[Day-1904|jh d ] ] < / r ef>]
===914 Marriage===
Estimating marriage date: Assuming his birth in 880, he would have bee n 2 1 i n t h e y ear 901 and a marriage would most likely have occurred aft er 9 0 1 .
Baldwin states that Heribert II married an unnamed daughter of Robert I , K i n g o f F rance, [ Charles Cawley, Foundation f or M e d i e val Genealogy, Medieval Lands Database. Adela]
[http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/CAPET.htm#_ftnref76 Capet]
Cawley believes that Robert's daughter was named Adela, born before 898 , a n d t h a t Adela was the daughter of Robert's wife Adela, whom Cawley b el i e v e s to be Robert's first wife, deceased by 207. [ C a w l ey, Foundation for Medieval Genealogy, Medieval Lands Database [ h t t p : //fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/NORTHERN%20FRANCE.htm#_ftnref2192] E l s e where Cawley refers to Heribert's wife's mother as Lietgardis. < r e f n a m e="fmgcapet"/> Adele as the name of the daughter of Robert who m a r r i e d Heribert also appears in Flodoard. ][ The A n n a l s o f Flodoard of Reims, 919-966, eds. Steven Fanning; Bernard S. Ba c h r a c h (Toronto: University of Toronto Press Inc., 2011), p. 21 n. 77. C i t e d b y W ikipedia. ]
Following Settipani, Cawley
Cawley states that Adela's birth date is estimated from the birth of he r f i r s t c hild in 915.
Dating the marriage to 914 would also be consistent with another fact. F l o d o a rd records that Heribert's second son Hughes was aged 5 when Herib e r t h a d h im made archbishop of Reims in 925, placing Hughes' birth at 9 2 0 . E u d es was Heribert's oldest son; assume that in the natural cours e o f t h i n gs there was a daughter born in 918 and Eudes in 916 or 915, a nd o n e h a s a n estimated marriage year of 914
This is also consistent with the signing of a charter in which the two f a m i l i es appear together. On 30 May 914 Heribert appears as a witness t o a c h a r t er of Robert (of Neustria) and his son Hugues on 30 May 914 < ref> �m i le Mabille, Introduction au Chroniques des Comtes d'Anjou (Soci �t� d e l ' H i stoire de France, vol. 155, Paris, 1871), xcviii-c cited by S t ew a r t B aldwin. Heribert II, The Henry Project. First uploaded 23 May 2 0 0 7 , r e vised 2008, 2011. http://sbaldw.home.mindspring.com/hproject/pr o v / h e rib002.htm. Accessed May 24, 2017. [[Day-1904|jhd]]
Baldwin, citing Flodoard, reports that Heribert's wife, still not named , w a s l i v ing in 931.[ [Flodoard, Annales, s.a. 931, 51, Cited by S tew a r t B a ldwin. Heribert II, The Henry Project. First uploaded 23 May 2 0 0 7 , r e vised 2008, 2011. http://sbaldw.home.mindspring.com/hproject/pr o v / h e rib002.htm. Accessed May 24, 2017. [[Day-1904|jhd]] ]
Heribert's marriage with a daughter of king Robert I of France brought h i m t h e C o unty of Meaux. [ Emily Taitz, The Jews o f M e d i e val France: The Community of Champagne (Westport CT: Greenwood P re s s , 1 9 94), p. 42. Cited by Wikipedia. ]
===923 Captures King Charles the Simple===
In 923, using false promises of safe conduct, he captured king Charles t h e S i m p le who remained a captive for the rest of his life, dring in 929 . < r e f n a me="henry"/>[ King Charles was the godfather to one of Her be r t I I ' s sons. See: Rodulfus Glaber, The Five Books of the Histories, e d . & t r a n s. John France (Oxford: The Clarendon Press, 1989), pp. 12-13 n . 1 . < / r e f> ]
===925 Appoints 5 year old son Archbishop of Reims===
In 922, when Seulf became Archbishop of Rheims, in an effort to appease H e r b e r t II, Seulf solemnly promised him he could nominate his successor. < r e f n a m e="wiki"/>
Then, on the death of Seulf in 925, with the help of King Rudolph, he a c q u i r ed for his second son Hugh (then five years old) the archbishopric o f R h e i m s. [ The Annals of Flodoard of Reims, 916-9 66 , e d s & t r ans. Steven Fanning: Bernard S. Bachrach (New York; Ontario , C a n : U n iversity of Toronto Press, 2011), pp. 14-15. Cited by Wikiped ia . < / r e f>][ Flodoard, s.a. 925, MGH SS 3: 376], cited by Stewart B a ld w i n , "Herbert II", The Henry Project. First uploaded 23 May 2007, r e v i s e d 2008, 2011. http://sbaldw.home.mindspring.com/hproject/prov/her i b 0 0 2 .htm. Accessed May 24, 2017. [[Day-1904|jhd]] ] This detai l s e r v e s not only to illustrate Heribert's widely-known rapaciousness - - p l a c i ng a five year old in such a position served no ecclesiastical p ur p o s e , but gave Heribert's family the income from the archbishopric -- b u t a l s o s erves to place Hughes' birth at 920 and Heribert's marriage no l a t e r t h an 919. Hughes was archbishop from 925-932 and again 940-946. < r e f n a m e="henry"/>
Herbert took the additional step of sending emissaries to Rome to Pope J o h n X t o g a in his approval, which that pope gave in 926. [ Eleanor Shipley Duckett, Death and life in the tenth century ( A n n A r b or: University of Michigan Press, 1967), p. 155. Cited by Wikip e d i a . < /ref> On his election young Hugh was sent to Auxerre to study. < r e f n a m e="wikinote2"/>]
===926 Demands Laon for eldest son Eudes===
In 926, on the death of Count Roger of Laon, Herbert demanded this coun t s h i p f or Eudes, his eldest son. He took the town in defiance of King R u d o l p h leading to a clash between the two in 927. [ U s i ng the threat of releasing King Charles III, who he held captive, H e r b e r t managed to hold the city for four more years. ]
===931 Defeats at Laon and Rheims===
After the death of Charles in 929, Rudolph again attacked Laon in 931 s u c c e s sfully defeating Herbert.
The same year the king entered Rheims and defeated archbishop Hugh, the s o n o f H e r bert. [ The Annals of Flodoard of Reims, 916-96 6, e d s & t r a ns. Steven Fanning: Bernard S. Bachrach (New York; Ontario, C a n : U n i versity of Toronto Press, 2011), p. 21. Cited by Wikipedia. ]
Herbert II then lost, in three years, Vitry, Laon, Ch�teau-Thierry, and S o i s s o ns.[ The Annals of Flodoard of Reims, 916-966 , e d s & t r a ns. Steven Fanning: Bernard S. Bachrach (New York; Ontario, C a n : U n i versity of Toronto Press, 2011), pp. 20-24. Cited by Wikipedia. < / r e f >]
The intervention of his ally, Henry the Fowler, allowed him to restore h i s d o m a ins (except Rheims and Laon) in exchange for his submission to K i n g R u d olph.
Later Herbert allied with Hugh the Great and William Longsword, duke of N o r m a n dy against King Louis IV, who allocated the County of Laon to Roge r I I , t h e s on of Roger I, in 941.
Herbert and Hugh the Great took back Rheims and captured Artaud. [ Eleanor Shipley Duckett, Death and life in the tenth c e n t u r y (Ann Arbor: University of Michigan Press, 1967), p. 157. Cited b y W i k i p edia. ]
Hugh, the son of Herbert, was restored as archbishop.
Again the mediation of the German King Otto I in Vis�, near Li�ge, in 9 4 2 a l l o wed for the normalization of the situation.
===943 Death===
Heribert died in 943, and his lands were distributed among his sons in 9 4 6 . < r ef name="henry"/> The specific date was 23 February 943. [ Th e d a t e o f 2 3 February comes from the necrology of the church of Reims [ Lo n g n o n (1909), 229, n. 4, cited by Stewart Baldwin. Heribert II, The H e n r y P r oject. First uploaded 23 May 2007, revised 2008, 2011. http:// s b a l d w.home.mindspring.com/hproject/prov/herib002.htm. Accessed May 24 , 2 0 1 7 . [ [Day-1904|jhd]] ]
While the place of his death is unknown, he was buried at Saint-Quentin < r e f n a me="henry"/>
At his death, Heribert II was Count of Vermandois, Count of Meaux, and C o u n t o f S oissons, the first to exercise power over the territory that b e c a m e t he province of Champagne.[ Kate N o r g a t e, 'Odo of Champagne, Count of Blois and Tyrant of Burgundy', The E n g l i s h Historical Review, Vol. 5, No. 19 (Jul., 1890), p. 488. Cited b y W i k i p edia. ]
==Issue==
===Generally Recognized Children===
Heribert II and Adele five sons and two daughters,
Of the children, only Hugues has a well documented approximate birthdat e . D e p e nding on whether Hugues was one of the elder or younger children , t h i s h a s led to varying conjectures for the birthdates for the other c h i l d r en [see, e.g. Werner (1967), table; Bur (1977), 507-513; Schwager ( 1 9 9 4 ) , 401-6].
#[[Vermandois-116|Eudes or Odo]], was apparently the eldest son of Heri b e r t . H is date and place of birth is unknown; based on an estimate of 9 1 4 a s t h e y ear of his parents' marriage, estimate his birth year as 915 . H e w a s C o unt of Vienne and Amiens. [ C a wley, Foundation for Medieval Genealogy, Medieval lands Databas e . N o r t hern France. [http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/NORTHERN%20FRAN C E. h t m #_ftnref2195 Reference 2195] ]Since birth order and birth ye a r s o f t h e children are unknown, estimate her as the second child, born t w o y e a r s after Eudes, therefore 917. In 934 Ad�le married Arnulf I, co u n t o f F l anders. [ Cawley, Foundation for Medieval G e n e a l ogy, Medieval lands Database. Northern France. [http://fmg.ac/P r o j e c ts/MedLands/NORTHERN%20FRANCE.htm#_ftnref2212 Reference 2212] A r c h bishop of Reims]. Birth year unknown, estimate 922 based o n b r o t h er Hugh's birth 920. She first married, about 940, [ a l so known as William Longsword ][ Cawley, Fou n d a t i on for Medieval Genealogy, Medieval Lands Database. [http://fmg.ac / P r o j ects/MedLands/NORTHERN%20FRANCE.htm#_ftnref2228]] She second l y m a r r ied Thibaut II "le tricheur", Count of Blois [ a n d C hartres. ][ a nd died 08 Sep 987.]
===Possible Additional Child===
*Guy (Wido), Comte de Soissons (d. after 986). Shown by Cawley but not b y R i c h a rdson.
===Falsely Attributed Children===
Steward Baldwin identifies several falsely attributed children who are N O T c h i l dren of Heribert II but sometimes appear in his genealogies:
#Ad�le, who married [[Anjou-20|Geoffroy Grisegonelle]], is sometimes sh o w n a s a d a ughter but is in fact a granddaughter of Heribert. This Ad� l e i s n o t t he daghter of Heribert, who married Arnulf of Flanders. The A d �l e w h o married Grisegonelle was Heribert's granddaughter, a daughter o f h i s s o n R obert. Geoffroy Grisegonelle was count of Anjou, died in 98 7. < r e f n ame="henry"/>#Ragenold/Renaud, count of Roucy, who died 10 May 9 6 7 , i s n o t a son of Heribert. He appears as such in the widely used An c e s t r al Roots. [ AR7 = Frederick Lewis Weis (with additions and co r r e c t ions by Walter Lee Sheppard, Jr.), Ancestral Roots of Certain Amer i c a n C o lonists Who Came to America before 1700 (7th, ed., Baltimore, 19 9 2 ) . C i ted by Stewart Baldwin, Henry Project. ]#Godehilde, a conj e c t u r ed daughter, very improbable, was living in 1005. She married Yv e s I , l i v ing 1005, lord of Bell�me. Baldwin observes that she was almo s t c e r t ainly in a later generation than the children of Heribert.
===Line of Descent to William the Conqueror===
Douglas Richardson [ Douglas Richardson. Royal Ances t r y : A S t udy in Colonial and Medieval Families. Kimball G Everingham, E d i t o r . Salt Lake City, Utah: By the Author, 2013. Volume V, p. 485 < / r e f > p rovides one line of descent from Charlemagne to William the Conq u e r o r a nd four lines of descent from Charlemagne to William's wife Maud .]
:Parent: [[Vermandois-3|Heribert I]], 950-906
:This profile: [[Vermandois-13|Heribert II]], 880-943
:Child: [[Vermandois-1|Robert]], 931-968
==Sources==
See also:* [[Space: Flodoardi Chronicon]] (Reims : Regnier, 1855) Recor d s d e a t h in 943.
*https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbert_II,_Count_of_VermandoisHerbert I I ( d i e d 2 3 February 943), Count of Vermandois, Count of Meaux, and Coun t o f S o i s sons. He was the first to exercise power over the territory th at b e c a m e the province of Champagne.
Herbert was the son of Herbert I of Vermandois. He was apparently well a w a r e o f h is descent from Charlemagne. Herbert inherited the titles of h i s f a t h er and in 907 : count of Soissons, count of Vermandois, includin g t h e p o s itions of Lay abbot of St. Quentin and St. Médard entitling hi m t o t h e i n come of those estates. His marriage with a daughter of king R o be r t I o f F rance brought him the County of Meaux. He acquired the coun t y o f B e a uvais on the death of his relative, Count Bernard..
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Abt 880 - 943 (63 years)
